Friday, 21 October 2011

No regrets

You should have heard the `ashamed to be British` brigade on Vine @ BBC today, arguing that Gadaffi's convoy shouldn’t have been targetted to allow the `mob to murder him`. For me, I hope it was a missile from a British aircraft that stopped him in his tracks (even if it WAS loaned by a reluctant Uncle Sam). I say `thanks Sam for the munitions, the logistial support and everything else you provided`. That bastard had a colleague of mine machine-gunned to death in a London street, his semtex killed and maimed many of my countrymen and women as well as our brethren on Pan Am 103 and those upon whom the debris fell. I saw a flight of RAF Tornados pass over my home this morning. Highly likely having been in Libyan skies. I welcomed them back and said a prayer for Yvonne Fletcher and her colleagues from Bow Street Police Station who watched her die.

28 comments:

CI-Roller Dude said...

I was sort of sad to see how quickly he died.

Anonymous said...

Those who were with Yvonne Fletcher on the day have a more mature attitude:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15399951

Hogdayafternoon said...

CI-RD: Arab world.

Anon: Quite agree. A relative of mine was Yvonne's sergeant, his was one of the helmets in the street. I reiterate, my thoughts are with Yvonne and theose from CB.

TonyF said...

I was very fortunate not to go to the aftermath of Lockerbie to pick up body parts. Many from my unit did though. I should have gone but I was locked up in SMC with 'flu.

I would like to have seen him in a Libyan court though.

Dave Pie-n-Mash said...

I was never a police officer, but I do not forget what happened to Yvonne Fletcher either - a travesty of justice and a tragedy. And I have never forgotten that, when there has been an IRA bombing incident in the past, that it is likely said terrorist was trained in Libya and is using Libyan supplied munitions. So seeing him dragged from a truck then pushed and slapped around and ultimately killed gives me great pleasure. My only conern is that his humiliating treatment and undignified death did not last longer. My only regret is that Yvonne Fletcher's family did not get an opportunity to slap his chops. I admire the dignity of Yvonne's family as well as their opinion that they wish he had been brought befoe justice, but personally I feel he had no fear of a civilised justice system. The death he got at the hands of his people is what he feared and I am happy he felt that fear. I am sorry if my opinion offends anyone on this blog, but just be glad we live in a society where an opinion simply offends someone rather brings about someone's death.

Anyway, on a lighter note (blimey... see how I segued there? how unbalanced do I sound? :) ) - I like your Blog, Hogday. I may not comment much, but I read it regularly and have done for a couple of years. Your surroundings look idyllic - as does that beer lorry that was perhaps making a door to door delivery for you? Luck you...

Keep writing. We'll keep reading.

Area Trace No Search said...

Well said Hogday.

As a fellow Met officer, I spent the beginning and a large portion of the Libyan conflict on public order duties guarding the Libyan Embassy.

I couldn't help thinking of what happened historically when we policed protests outside the Libyan embassy... Standing in my uniform outside the embassy made sure Yvonne Fletcher was constantly at the front of my mind - at the front of all our minds.

When our embassy got attacked in Libya, and yet we still spent thousands of pounds and thousands of man hours, it became very difficult to smile and nod at the embassy staff as they came and went.

The end of the conflict couldn't come soon enough. The end of Gaddaffi was necessary for so many reasons; if it helps the investigation into WPC Fletcher's death be re-invigorated, then hopefully some good will come of it.

I don't know if the death of Gaddaffi and his regime brings any closure to Yvonne Fletcher's family, but to this small corner of the Met it does.

Area Trace No Search said...

Apologies for the appalling grammar and typing. Doing it on a phone means it takes three times as long and I can't see what I've written!

Sent you an email HD, hope things are ok.

Anonymous said...

One would have hoped, if not expected, that more officers would have had respect for the rule of law rather than mob 'justice'

Hogdayafternoon said...

Anon above:
I have hated violence all my life. I always hope for good things and peaceful, meaningful resolutions and I would wager my former police colleagues do the same. Eg. I always tried to TALK a p.i.t.a drunk out of a pub rather than chuck him out - I always tried to give people a dignified means of walking away from something I was called to intervene in, so as to allow them to retain a little self-respect in the presence of others - avoiding humiliation by having consideration for someone's self respect is so important. I hated trampling my size ten and a half's over peoples private lives. I hated removing a mothers dead baby from her arms on behalf of HM Coroners, even though I was duty bound to investigate an unexplained death - even when 99% of the time I knew it was SIDS. As for Gadaffi being captured and dying as was played out on our TV screens, like others I'd hoped for justice as we in the free West tend to understand the meaning of the word but, in the sort of world he lived and plied his own evil trade in, I was not surprised. Considering what he gave to the world, I actually believe he got what he expected and wanted. Insh'Allah, I think he'd call it.

Hogdayafternoon said...

TonyF:
The body handling/mortuary team were drawn largely from the Met. Unbelievably harrowing experiences that I sat and listened to (on a disaster management course at Bramshill). You were indeed fortunate, old chum. A formal trial was always the best form of closure, although what his mental state would have been judged as is another matter. He seemed barking 40 years ago.

Dave:
Welcome back mate! I wondered how things were with you over there. Drop in anytime, lurk whenever you want. As for being in East Anglia, it's great to be amongst folk who talk like wot i do, once again. PS> I really like the other Blogs on your blogroll. Highly recommended. Cheers.

ATNS:
Thanks for dropping in. During my DPG days I had a gun stuck in my face by an Arab whilst on point. Love `em.

Blue Eyes said...

Yes, the real shame in being British was the way in which successive governments kowtowed to that bastard.

Hogdayafternoon said...

Blue;
Q: "How many evil despots does it take for Tony Blair to shake their hand and embrace them"?

sparkflash said...

Can't say I subscribe to mob rule and summary execution by the side of the road - we have to be better than that.

But as the exception to every rule, I won't deny there was something quite apt, almost poetic, to his ending. The biter bit, so to speak.

I have to say, this is a very large piece of cake, that I'm having and eating.

Hogdayafternoon said...

Spark`:
Thanks for your thoughts. I can say no more than on my response to `Anon` above other than to reiterate I hate violence and subscribe to the concept of justice. Re the latter, I learnt not to confuse this with compensation or the righting of wrongs.

Blue Eyes said...

The problem is that there is never a suitable punishment for the most unpleasant. For Shipman life in prison was probably good punishment and it is sad he was allowed to die. For Huntley almost any punishment would be too lenient.

When a country emerges from tyranny to become a more constitutional place how can it possibly properly punish its deposed tyrant while also showing its people that it has emerged from the dark ages?

It was probably better for everyone that Hitler killed himself. Saddam's show trial and execution were the worst form of "justice" imaginable. We need something better. Can we invent some kind of humane living hell for these people?

Hogdayafternoon said...

Blue: Exile in Milton Keynes?

Blue Eyes said...

Brilliant!

JuliaM said...

"Saddam's show trial and execution were the worst form of "justice" imaginable.."

At least that was an actual trial, rather than a shooting-out-of-hand then a shamefaced 'His own side killed him in crossfire' fairy tale...'

Our part in this whole stinking affair besmirches us irreparably.

Hogdayafternoon said...

JuliaM: Sadly, when one dabbles in matters Arab, this sort of shit does tend to happen

Anonymous said...

He ran the country for many years - was it forty? He contributed to setting the standards by which his captors acted. He had blood on his hands.

There is now no chance of a trial. Some in politics might be grateful for this, in London. Rome and Ireland. And there's no chance of a sentence commuted to life and an early release with a dodgy diagnosis for political reasons.

bruce

Hogdayafternoon said...

Bruce:
A lot left undone. As you suggested, his survival and interrogation at trial could well have affected the Irish general election and caused some stirring in Spain, what with the newly disbanded ETA and all. What do terrorists do when they disband and disarm? I presume they go back to being brickkies, teachers and so on?

Blue Eyes said...

Well most of them wouldn't have been full-time terrorists, so they will just go back to their day jobs and their families.

We had an East German au pair in the early 90s. Her dad had been in some secret state organisation or other, spying on the Wessies. He ended his career as a faceless bureaucrat in the Berlin Housing Department or similar.

Not many have the balls that Martin McGuinness clearly does.

If Northern Ireland can normalise then so can Spain and Libya.

I'm rather rooting for Mr O'Stelios to win the presidency.

Dave Pie-n-Mash said...

Hogday/Blue Eyes: Milton Keynes as a living hell sentence? Ideal. I lived there between 1984 and 1990. It really IS a living hell!!

Area Trace No Search said...

I once went to Milton Keynes to arrest someone.
The guy we nicked actually thanked us for taking him away - bizarre.

At the time we thought he was joking. Perhaps I was wrong. My knowledge of Milton Keynes is simply that it's easy to navigate around in a 'foreign' Police car.

Anonymous said...

Have to agree Gaddafi as fair game Hog and would have pushed any button or gently squeezed myself. Would there was a better world I could disagree the action. There ain't. At least we didn't have to do protection duty for the sod. I wish the Libyans well in forming a democracy. We could do with a few tips on our own. I suspect 'mob rule' has a place when things are this wrong.(ACO)

Sam Tadanori said...

I have every sympathy for those suffering and finding no closure in his death.

Anon wrote 'a more mature attitude' and quoting a BBC News article.
I disagree. In my experience expecting any government leader whether a despot or otherwise to actually tell the truth in a court of law or inquiry is very naive as is an expectation that any documentary evidence will exist to prove or disprove a particular 'truth'. No. His murder will do good in that it prevents a media and legal circus for years to come with very little, if any, justice resulting.

The 'more mature attitude' by Anon in an earlier post is an unjust criticism of HogDayAftenoon's comment.

Blue Eyes said...

Area, perhaps your customer didn't have the required PhD to find his way to the railway station? It can't be an easy place to escape from without a car...

Hogdayafternoon said...

Anon`aco:
"Do as you would be done by" seems to be an appropriate closing remark on this one. I met many Libyan families during my occasional visits for early turn breakfasts at the Royal Brompton Hospital in the mid 70's. The paediatric wards were full of Libyan kids having surgery paid for by their Government - and before some anon comes in and suggests that's prooof there was good in the late departed Gad, my understanding was that they were the children of the favoured ones.

Sam T (through the round window?):

Thanks for taking the trouble to chip in. I feel your perspective has a foundation based on some experience of life in a society where a persons tribe decides their place. A whiff of the Balkans, perhaps ;)